tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post5574968192500293298..comments2023-10-12T16:08:14.017+01:00Comments on Lashings of Ginger Beer Time Blog: Five Things I Wish I Hadn't Learned from Disney's 'The Lion King' (... and one thing I wish I had).Annalyticahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06402598855200483948noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-15972268513375870692011-03-21T04:58:44.982+00:002011-03-21T04:58:44.982+00:00As for #2, you should check out Rosina Lippi-Green...As for #2, you should check out Rosina Lippi-Green's book called, I believe, Speaking English with an Accent. She has a whole chapter on accents in Disney movies-- it came out pre-Lion King, I think, but I do remember her talking a lot about Beauty and the Beast so it can't have been much pre-Lion King. Anyway, she makes a bunch of observations similar to yours about the (troubling) way accent is used in a whole range of Disney movies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-91112093172163795862011-03-21T00:55:33.776+00:002011-03-21T00:55:33.776+00:00You mean female kitty cats don't procreate?
...You mean female kitty cats don't procreate? <br /><br />"This has been bothering me for SIXTEEN YEARS now: Seriously, who the hell is Nala’s father?"<br /><br />*google search* oh, THAT'S how mitosis works...Dr. Carmillahttp://dieselpunkcabaret.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-46638577970424041122011-03-20T01:30:00.026+00:002011-03-20T01:30:00.026+00:00Neo_Leviathan again
Very good point on Nala effec...Neo_Leviathan again<br /><br />Very good point on Nala effectively doing all the work and not getting the credit :(<br />Hrm. A thought occurs, I'm utterly terrible at knowing timelines of feminism, did the movie come out anywhere at all near to a cultural trend of "Men may seem to do all the work but there's always a woman behind them making it happen"? If so maybe they were trying to show that, hoping that people would pick up on how dodgy it is?<br />No idea if that will even come out close to the truth, it's just a random thought :)<br /><br />And I dare say you're probably right that "Oh no! Without a King the pride can't have cubs!" was going to be rather far from the minds of kids watching it...<br /><br />I think one of the TVTropes commenters is quite right with the Lion King. A lot of bits and pieces, including the incest, Lions chasing off Hyenas from their hunting grounds, infighting over who gets to be the Alpha, etc etc, are all quite normal for Lions. If the show just showed them as animals, it'd be acceptable, but highly anthropomorphising everyone and keeping those behaviours the same just turn them into squicky bastards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-814535452279926562011-03-19T21:55:40.881+00:002011-03-19T21:55:40.881+00:00Aw, thanks for the kind words, commenters!
As for...Aw, thanks for the kind words, commenters!<br /><br /><i>As for kitty incest, are there really no other male lions in the pride? I thought there were usually more than two in a pride of lions, having to fight it out for alpha status... </i> <br /><br />I don't think there are in the film, and certainly not in the stage show (although I think possibly in some casts male singers/dancers are included among the lioness chorus, they're still dressed and performing as female lions). <br /><br /><i>When Mufasa-the-almighty (bastard) reduces a species to the point where the rallying cry for them to commit regicide is "Stick with me and you'll never go hungry again", there's something very wrong with your "Circle of life"</i><br /><br />Yes, this! And extra hisses for the idea that *not* accepting your own second-best status as a matter of course is what makes you 'evil' and thus worthy of hatred/mockery. <br /><br /><i>However, if we do we're left with a Pride with no males, which means we either leave and join another pride, go find a male somewhere, or die out",</i><br /><br />This is a good point. I'm still not convinced that the biological fact that a pride that can't produce cubs from somewhere = a pride with no future is uppermost in the minds of kids watching the film though -- IIRC, it is very much 'We need a king!', not 'We need a husband for Princess Nala' (which, gross as it is, might actually still be a preferable message from my perspective). <br /><br /><i>I guess I'd thought about Nala beatingt the snot out of Simba and then dragging him back home as a "Sensible female childhood friend beats the shit out of spoiled male brat until he stands up and takes responsibility" type of situation.</i> <br /><br />Yeah, I think that's pretty much what they were going for. It may be picky of me, but I guess I don't want to accept 'sensible female childhood friend who does the hard work of getting the responsibility accepted, then steps back to get very little of the credit' as good enough, y'know? <br /><br /><i>Any idea if this accent lineup remains constant in dubbed versions of the film? </i><br /><br />I don't know enough about the politics of accents in any language other than English to pick up the nuances, unfortunately. However, I do think that the dub of 'Be Prepared' in German is somewhat badass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKOJ5bEKPLY&feature=related (link is to a YouTube clip: as ever, avoid reading the comments!)Galateahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00311943348880788160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-82074572125575601872011-03-19T01:38:55.457+00:002011-03-19T01:38:55.457+00:00Note: This is Neo_Leviathan. I cannot make this th...Note: This is Neo_Leviathan. I cannot make this thing recognise me LJ account ><<br /><br />Hrm. Some interesting points :). I may need to acquire a copy of the movie and re-watch it. Although re-watching Aladdin was a bit of a mistake, I don't want to ruin the memories...<br />The main thing tha I normally think about regarding Lion King is how bad a rap the Hyenas have. When Mufasa-the-almighty (bastard) reduces a species to the point where the rallying cry for them to commit regicide is "Stick with me and you'll never go hungry again", there's something very wrong with your "Circle of life".<br /><br />Thinking about it, I think that #1, #4 & #6 have similar reasonings behind them:<br />Mufasa, Scar & Simba, near as I've been able to tell *Are* the only males in the pride (which I think is reasonably accurateish?). <br />so when Mufasa is killed and Simba runs off, the Lionesses (or at least Nala) are faced with "Yes, we could happily beat the shit out of Scar. However, if we do we're left with a Pride with no males, which means we either leave and join another pride, go find a male somewhere, or die out", hence they stick with Scar for now, and in the meantime Nala goes out to try and find a Lion somewhere willing to come back and take over leadership. <br />Finding a male and making him come back and take the throne, rather than ousting Scar on their own and handing a male the Pride, means they can at least make sure they get a male with (pun intended) some balls.<br /><br />Then when they get their male to challenge Scar, the females show in no uncertain terms that they were more than capable of beating the living daylights out of Scar's Hyenas. Alas most of the fight screentime is of course given to the Designated Hero Vs Designated Villain fight, but perhaps the Lioness vs Hyena fight was too one-sided :)<br /><br />I guess I'd thought about Nala beatingt the snot out of Simba and then dragging him back home as a "Sensible female childhood friend beats the shit out of spoiled male brat until he stands up and takes responsibility" type of situation.<br /><br />Still hardly the most gender-equal setup that it could have been, but I think they were a little hamstrung by wanting to show the Lions as being reasonably similar (though obviously althropomorphised) to real-life, without actually outright stating it, since I doubt Disney's censors would have knowingly let through "Simba & Nala are incestuous half siblings" regardless of the reason.<br /><br />As to #3, I may have to watch that through again :). I admittedly looked at that (last time I watched it) as a "Brains vs Brawn" situation, and Scar playing up being a sarcastic wuss to Mufasa purely so that Mufasa doesn't see him as a threat and disembowel him. Scar seemed much more 'traditional male' when dealing with the Hyenas (and "Be Prepared", in spite of scaring the shit out of me as a kid, remains my favorite Disney song EVER!).<br /><br />Re #2. Well, I can see giving differing accents to differing species as being a good way to show their differences, the lineup of accent vs role kinda can't be argued with.<br />Any idea if this accent lineup remains constant in dubbed versions of the film?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-11609872507270035902011-03-19T00:17:27.104+00:002011-03-19T00:17:27.104+00:00Great post. It never occurred to me about Nala bei...Great post. It never occurred to me about Nala being strong enough to take on Scar, but you're so right that is weird. And don't get me started on Scar trying to force her into marriage in the stage show, that was creepy.<br /><br />As for kitty incest, are there really no other male lions in the pride? I thought there were usually more than two in a pride of lions, having to fight it out for alpha status...Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03846611503923728036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-89104992768943998402011-03-18T19:06:34.480+00:002011-03-18T19:06:34.480+00:00I agree with everything you say here.
As a non-...I agree with everything you say here. <br /><br />As a non-conformative male I have also noticed how non conformativity and evilness seem to be linked in most children's stories/films. Perhaps one of the reasons I've always identified more with the female characters in books and kids films than the male ones.<br /><br />Also I always Simba was a bit of a bratty spoilt brat. And he never really seems to have real reasons to learn to be more respectful of others, he just is suddenly, apparently, a fantastic King.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8828823099864315938.post-70500963236072856552011-03-18T18:53:51.993+00:002011-03-18T18:53:51.993+00:00Because I am, of course, chock-full of highly-inte...<em>Because I am, of course, chock-full of highly-intelligent green-eyed genderqueer evil.</em><br /><br />Amen to that!<br /><br />I am now deeply worried that a large part of my gender presentation was directly informed by Ursula the Sea Witch. And by worried, I mean slightly aroused.Sebastiennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14049602363105805106noreply@blogger.com